A Place for Knitting Machine Enthusiasts
About YAHOO Groups, The Good & Bad
About Yahoo Groups, the Devil in Disguise
YAHOO GROUPS: THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY....
A couple of years back, I wrote up a summary of what I thought about "Knitting Machine" and knitting Yahoo Groups. At that time, I had given them all a grade of "B" at best as I had just been using them for over a year, and really did not dive into the negative side of these groups at that time, especially when it came to the owners or moderators as they keep up the groups with their own personal time. I thought that most of the bad and immature behavior was at best going to be sporatic, and the little cliques within the groups, for the most part, really not that many. Well, I am just going to be very honest and specific with "MY" personal experience, not only because of the way I have been treated, or should I say mistreated, but also how others have been treated unfairly on numerous sites.
First, let me say that there are "NORMAL" people out there on these groups and I have met them through email and such. These are people who have lives, who have hobbies, only one of which is machine knitting and it is NOT "all about them". They have full lives and are just too busy for petty things and they are the type of people who are just NOT into the "GOSSIP" side of these groups. These types, I can assure you, are mostly quiet, get in and get out with what they need and do not throw stones or get into the cliquishness of the groups.
They also contribute facts in short summaries, so as to not to waste anyone's time. No one cares about what you did last week in your garden, no one wants to hear about your family or personal issues, none of these people care one iota about what you think of someone else. These "normal" people are probably younger than most of the other, more active members who do use these groups as forums for conversation and fodder. The "Norm's", as I call them, do not use the group as an extension of their lives or as a means to disparage someone else, because they have lives and they live their lives.
Good news is there are sites that do try to inform and act as a place to chat about knitting machines, techniques and try to be of service and there are other groups where you just buy and sell knitting machines and yarns. The good news also, is that you can, every once in a while, find out something of value, find a great bargain and even receive an item as described. I have come to appreciate the "Norm's" on a whole other level and thank them every day for their contributions.
While in the beginning, my experience with KM YAHOO Groups was ok, I did find a lot of them very chatty with subjects at times that had nothing to do with knitting or machine knitting at all. I also found that a lot of the "For Sale" groups were excessively burdened with a lot of rules that really made no sense whatsoever. Needless to say, after about a year it was not only very disappointing, but I was completely bored with them. Why? Because I had found out, through time that some YAHOO Groups were really a bitch fest for old ladies who needed to get a life. A place for people to talk about others and be vindictive. I also found out that the "For Sale" sights were not necessarily trustworthy and the sellers were very dishonest with their descriptions of what they were selling, even emailing photos that had been enhanced or not of the actual item you were buying. For Internet protections see the "Internet Selling and Buying" page page and how to buy a machine on the "Buying a Knitting Machine"page.
In addition, these sellers were lazy when it came to packing so items almost always were damaged in transit. I found out, that for the most part, these groups acted like High School cliques with a bunch of the same mean girls, or should I say old ladies, on the different sites. So, I got angry and that motivated me to do something about it.
I started a YAHOO group as a place for people to only sell and buy knitting machines, and only knitting machines and items for knitting machines with no chat. There was not one site that I could find that worked exactly like the classified ads in a newspaper. I know that owners of other groups may say "NOT SO!", but I say to these nay-sayers "It's TOO TRUE!" A lot have conversations (a real time sucker), chats (not interesting, I'll pick up a phone) and a bunch of rules like you "can list the item but not the price in the message post" but "the item with price can go here," or "you can only post items for sale on Friday's or weekly" or "just list the item in the database and send out a post that you have listed an item for sale," and on and on. Absolutely ridiculous rules that were time suckers for the members and confusing. I am serious when I say the rules were just stupid, stupid, stupid, not logical and quite unnecessary.
I am not into a lot of stupid rules, we are all adults. For my group, I decided to keep it simple, just list and sell or buy knitting machines and their accessories or yarn. Buyer beware and sellers be honest. Post a message with what you are selling, for how much with shipping cost, that way everything is there in the ONE posting, you don't have to search around to find descriptions and pricing in other sections. If you are looking for something, send a post out for what you need and how much you are willing to spend. I do not care what you think about each other as there are two sides to every story, people make mistakes and I could not care less about cliques, except that I detest them.
Many YAHOO Group owners seem to think, or at least act like your subscription to their site means that they own that information about you, even you! I would think that inclusion would be the way to go in order to keep this amazing fiber art alive. BUT OHHHH NOOOOOOO!!!! Most other YAHOO Groups are very adamant about not letting you know of other YAHOO Groups that may be of interest to you, or allow me to send out a post about my YAHOO Group, or even this website. I do not understand this philosophy, nor do I share it. I cannot for the life of me think of even one way this is an advantage to anyone. They cannot sell your information, they cannot give it away so, why be so territorial? I have no idea, except that it makes them feel important.
I have seen people mistreated, banned for frivolous issues, people being very vindictive in their messaging and while all the sites say they will ban anyone who flames, that is a joke, because they do not. So, for the most part I give 85% of the groups an "F" because of the hypocrisy, the gossip and dishonest behavior. BUT, NOT ALL groups act this way, there are some very good groups out there and it is unfortunate that these few women and group owners ruin it for all the other "Normal" groups. The bad news is that you find them through trial and error.
All I wanted to do want is to have as much information as possible about Machine Knitting, Yarn and anything to do with Knitting, so I put together this website. I want you to have with the ability to sell and buy your knitting machines and items in peace, no matter who you are and cut out all the immature crap. Hence, my YAHOO Group works exactly that way: FOR SALE KNITTING MACHINES
I only ban spam emails or people who lie about the stuff they sell or buyers who try to scam sellers. Other than that, we are all adults, I expect adult behavior, people to be honest and I do not moderate the postings very often. I will also ban anyone who talks smack about someone on another group, I just do not want those people on my site, and they are the same people on every site.
BUT!!!! BUYERS BEWARE!! NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE TOLD ALWAYS EXPECT TO SPEND AN ADDITIONAL $200 IN REPAIRS WHEN BUYING FROM GROUPS. Even my group, but I do try to keep it as clean as possible. Also, you should not trust the pictures you get, they can be enhanced or not even of the actual item they are selling you. To mitigate your exposure, make sure the pictures have a time stamp and close ups of the needle bed, the name and model number and the electronics turned on. The same thing with SELLERS BEWARE - You can also get ripped off also, especially with PayPal. Someone buys something, keeps it for a month and then decides to return it or FILES A FALSE CLAIM A MONTH LATER with PayPal.
Probably what is most hypocritical is that these same women will use all of my sites, even though they think poorly of me. They will talk about me behind my back, but if I have something they need, they will take it. All I have to say about that is... KARMA!!! I know the more information there is out there for people, the more we share information with each other the better chance of having Knitting or Machine Knitting passed to on to current and future generations. Also, the more info out there lessens that chance that you will get ripped off.
So, I get A LOT of FLACK from people, I even get hate email and that is just fine with me, because that means that people are paying attention to what I have to say. On the other end, there are a lot of people, who when they read this will be nodding their heads, thanking me for saying it and offering all this information for free. It took me almost 4 months to write the website and another month to revamp it and it is after learning all this stuff over a period of years. So, I'm the jerk? I'm the one who is not serious about knitting and machine knitting? Ya', that's right because they are always right. So, that is my experience, my opinion and why I put so much work into the group and this website. I see no reason to charge for something that is free.
Just know that what I do is with a love for the art of knitting and the backbone to tell it like it is, at least in my eyes. I do not say these things lightly or without cause. I will promote the few wonderful and charitable people and organizations that I have been lucky enough to make contact with and warn you about the other not so nice groups, vendors and people.
And for everyone, I hope this website and the YAHOO group helps you make informed decisions when purchasing a knitting machine, helps protect you and that you learn what you need to about them. Enjoy the site and the FREEBIES!!!!